Thursday, May 27, 2010

Can Graham Cooke say these things are from God?

Tell me if these portions, either underlined or not, are true the way they are expressed in this CD. Can all these declarations be seen in the parallels of scripture? Is this the truth and nothing but the truth, so help us God, so to speak? Are they true in the way he says them and, more importantly, in the context of who he says is telling him to say them?

There are some 22 or more with underlines, but he spoke for a long time and delivered many quotes that I would like answered but didn‘t write down. If you would, give me parallel references in his book with page numbers and paragraphs so you can help me find outwhy he would say them. I’m just a guy trying my best to see if he is consistent to himself and to his over-arching system of authority to say them publicly. Just like anyone should test to see if what one says is so about reality is really so - concretely. Because he does say reality about God is - this and that - in a lovely tone, no doubt, but are these statements constructed from concrete harmony with the biblical words of God? Are we bound to give an account for what we say about the Lord or are we given the liberty of a boundlessness imagination of word and discourse about who the God of Creation and the Bible is?

He,Graham Cooke( GC) says he is speaking for God and these words GC says are what he is characterizing as the Lord’s words. For he speaks them in God’s stead and with His, seeming, imprimatur. He, GC, spoke both with explicitness as if he was acting out what God was saying. But also implicitly, for he acted as if there was no doubt about it, for he was speaking this way for 85 minutes in quite certain plenary terms that this is what the only Wise God was saying to this group. It was new, different than before, almost a new covenant to the humankind.

(Opinions are to be listened to -- everyone is entitled to them. But no one is entitled to his or her own personal and subjective set of facts about reality. For facts are stubborn, objective and true in the open light of day. Facts must be given preeminence in all contexts.)

What GC said in the first 55 minutes of this 90 minute CD:

1. “‘Presbo’s’ won’t get to do what they thought right about God in heaven. Oh, they are so over. Get away from them, relax, move about, lie down…get the real God.”

2. Permission to granted to dream and GC is saying God is giving these hearers who hear him a special opening, outside of the normal, to make requests about their problems and special difficulties. Look to God. Favor is now being actively promoted by the HS. But it will be equally contested by the enemy. Favor is permission to ask. In the certain knowledge that (the audience) will be said yes to . Teaching you to make requests, in such a way, that you will hear the yes. Your life, therefore, is getting to the place of yes. I will take this favor I’m giving you to a high and deep place.

3. (GC speaking for the HS) Also, now, after a new favor deposit, a greater faith anointing will come to you. In this place of My indulgence, I will teach you how to stand. I want you to feel Me beloved. Feel My intentionality. Fresh, refresh, to hear My heart saying yes to you. I will give you a capacity to receive favor.

Here, listening now, You will want what I want for you. You will see it. You will know it. And revel in it. You will discover my intention for you. I will intensify my intention for you. Oh, that you would know how I see you. You will walk as Jesus walked in the full knowledge of the Father.

What if the only way to know this good news and fantasy is to dream? This is the way to Me, to dream.

4. (Still speaking for God) Logic cannot help you to inherit Me. You inherit thru your dreams. So I will do something away from what has come and I bring My favor and I will birth dreams in you. I have given the HS so you will know who you are. He is going to declare your identity. Dreaming is the way to this. Logic is gone and you’re to feel the anointing in a deep place of receiving out of what this new thing is. Only feeling is the way.

5. Because when you tell Me you have simple faith, then, that jolly well settles it. It then is not Me but your faith that will identify you to me. You won’t figure it all out but trust me.

6. (still speaking for God) I will put you in My position of manifest presence so you will occupy the territory of My heart. Now you will know that you will know that you will know, yes you. But no logic allowed because it is gone and done away with. So you will know that you will know, without logic but from identity of feeling.

7. Your poverty is over. Your fainting is over. Now you will see provision beyond imagination. Now you will be in the land of the living. Now you will be under the sunshine of My smile. I’m grinning and laughing over you. Trade your sorrows for joy and laughter.

Rest, peace and trust and plenty and laughter are such that you can live as a much loved child. I will teach you.

Enjoy the journey.

Dreaming is the place of your permission.

8. The enemy will come and he is my sheep dog and he will drive you into a deeper place. For that is the enemy’s function. So now adversity will come to unseat you. Now the sheep dog will contend with your promise.

9. You must not think. You must only attach to me in the heart. There is to be no head as it comes to honoring me. Not headstrong but heart-felt. Be lead from the heart and you will see the way. You will only see it this way. My provision will come from your heart because the heart has the eyes. You don’t have to figure this out for God is saying this.”

10. I will deny you nothing. There is only inclusion. You’re the one. You will be astonished. This is the only way you can be in My kingdom, that you are amazed.

11. This favor I give, now it is an upgrade which you can receive. But in your heart only. He will give you a new language and vocab. I will train you to receive fullness. “

12. Measure no longer exits for you. Limitation has been cast aside. All situations are in agreement with my favor.”

13. All deliberation is risky; so don’t think about it. Just come without thinking. And no hanging back or you will lose the chance because now is the time of your opportunity.”

14. If your head rules your heart you will be denied. God says so.

15. It’s My turn now. Now I will bless your name.

16. Come children up higher. Come up to your elevation. Everything that I have promised the Son will come to you.”

17. Somebody pinch me, I must be dreaming. This is heaven on earth. This is what the kingdom is like. You will have it now. I will give you these glimpses now. My indulgence is activated in your life. Allow it to shape your destiny.”

18. This is the same as Egypt and the parting of the sea. You Walk toward Me. I’m coming after you. I’m pursuing you. Your present has been decided and determined. It is decided but you must allow it.”

19. Renew not just my mindset but now, it will be the heart. Don’t think. I’m coming and I am coming also. You will know my identity in the heart. Just say yes, - but don‘t think. Just say and know and come and pursue me. That is it all to do now. The old way is gone.

This word will be a doorway. Beyond anything that has been said before, This is new.

20. You will not be tired again or weary again or anxious again. You will understand what heaven is like for you. You have access. Go.

21. You will understand the heart of the Lord and as you soak you will cease to see mysteries but, now, the very heart of God. It will be new revelation that will transform you. A new season of the prophetic. New and now revealed for you.”

22. Live from your heart. The old is passed away and all things are new - now for you. This very hour it is set. The heart is the highest.”

Did only a third of the 90 minute CD. I’m done. I could of done more but didn’t want to go any farther. I point these out because they can’t possibly be correct in the sense of God saying them. This seems obvious. I think they are the hopes of a dear man who is going way beyond his bounds as a communicator for the triune God.

I, Bruce, do this because of a sacred promise. Because I for one have not always taken to study with courage and with the seriousness of asking basic questions of why and how. That no man take me unaware, so I take truth claims very seriously; or at least I should. And these in particular are Graham Cooke’s truth claims. I considered them as wisely as I am able. To not be lead into hysteria, group think, influence thru peer pressure and predictable group dynamics. The beauty of his words is quite appealing. But wait, it maybe a mystic talking and I can‘t grasp this. These words that Graham says here he says are the very impressions of the God of all, and he makes clear, that he has just spoken for God.

Seems to me he is saying that God has changed his position on how he communicates. The past is over and this communiqué we are addressing above is new protocol for what is so about God.

· Today you can hear in every corner of church people speaking about Jesus being presented as the silent gentleman who never goes where He’s not asked. They say it of the Holy Spirit also. Mankind is the butler in the room. I think it wise to consider if this position would provide that they know the difference between that Jesus and the Jesus who lovingly and powerfully invades the rebellious human heart with His light and grace (Acts 16:14)? Plus a hundred more descriptions in scripture if necessary.

· Jude admonishes us to “contend earnestly for the faith” (Jude 3b). It is not our nature to endure sound doctrine; it is something for which we must fight for diligently.

· Then if anyone says to you, ‘_Look, here is the Christ!_’ or ‘_There!_’ do not believe it. (Matthew 24:23).

A Counterpoint:

The critical issue is not what the Scripture says. The critical issue is what the Scripture means:

Then, where does scripture end and ‘new scripture language’ start to take over?

For a moment, let’s be in the role of looking closely at people's doctrine and seeing what's being taught and raising questions in the public arena and asking whether things are sound or accurate or right and true and good, even among members of the Body of Christ, members that identify themselves with Christianity. Some people get very uncomfortable with that. They accuse us of dividing the Body and assaulting other Christians and say that we shouldn't correct each other in public. They think that maybe we're just straining at a gnat and splitting hairs and trying to dance on the head of a pin and making a mountain out of a mole hill. As a matter of fact, we're called, can you say amen, heresy hunters by some in a most disparaging fashion. I don't consider myself a heresy hunter at all. I consider myself a Christian who's concerned with the truth and my attempts are to try and clarify what the truth is and challenge those things that are mistaken.

I am very aware that this treatment above is sprinkled liberally with Scripture verses and that's as it should be. However, the critical issue is not what the Scripture says. The critical issue is what the Scripture means. Of course, we get to the meaning by looking at what it says, but it's not enough to simply quote a verse and assume that we know what that verse means. We must look more closely at it because words can be misunderstood and misused. I want to look a little closer at GC’s explanations to determine what he thinks these Scriptures actually mean. The question is not are these verses valid verses? Every verse that we quote is a true verse. The point is do these verses really substantiate the argument that others are putting forward about the power of the tongue and speaking for God.

This is why I think we ought to be concerned about this because something very clear is being said here. GC is speaking as a mystical power or oracle for God, that even God must tap into His words as true. Now there are a couple of reasons why this last statement can't possibly be true. The first reason is that God is not contingent upon anything or anybody. God doesn't have to abide with regard to anything outside of Him. The only thing He has to be is with regard to Himself. In other words, God has to live righteously but it's not because He's compelled by some outside moral law to do so. It's because it's His nature to do so and He's not following or obeying His nature, He's merely being Himself. So God is not contingent on anything. God doesn't answer to anyone. God doesn't have to invoke any outside power in order to accomplish anything.

The second thing is the reason I know that God didn't have to speak in order to create is because God doesn't have a mouth. He has no tongue that can form words. When we read about God speaking it's an anthropomorphism. It is using language that relates to a body to help us understand something. God willed this is the point. It is not His speaking forth into the universe. Speaking requires a tongue and lips and vocal chords and it also requires vibrating air to make a sound. And according to this passage, all of those things were spoken into being, so how could He speak without the mechanism to speak? You think, "It says He spoke." Well, yes, of course. But it's not saying He spoke like we speak. God willed it. That's all there was to it. He willed it. His term for it was that He spoke, but of course we know that He couldn't have spoken because we know that He doesn't have a mouth.

By the way, I have heard other people say that because of this statement in the Bible that God must have a mouth and a Body and He walked in the garden with Adam and Eve and it's just a very simplistic look at the text. I guess from that perspective we'd have to say that God is a bird or that He has feathers because Psalm 91 says that He covers us with His pinions (those are feathers). Does God have feathers? Of course not. This is way of describing something that is literally true, His protective nature, but it's an anthropomorphism or simile--pictures to help us understand a literal truth.

So you may be saying that I'm simply fussing about words. And I have three things to respond to that. First of all, this is precisely Paul's point. We ought to fuss about words. Words are everything to Paul because Paul believes that words are everything to God.

Secondly, this is a legitimate concern about words because words are used to communicate accurate information about God and His world. That is a definition of truth. And if our words are wrong then the information those words convey is going to be wrong as well. Words are very important to God because they're a means of communicating.

Third, this isn't a noncritical, arbitrary distinction. In my way of thinking, the word is dependent upon something prior to it. The word that is spoken, the word that God supposedly "speaks," the words that you and I speak are dependent upon something prior to it. They are dependent upon the speaker. God's words are dependent upon God, our words are dependent on us. It's the word of His power that does it. But according to the statements above and since scripture was closed, God seems to be the one who is now dependent upon ‘new prophets’ that will be speaking new instructions from Him. God depends on the word of humans, not the word on which God said were his. It's all the difference in the world. And it's a difference that we should point out on who is speaking for God.

It's appropriate for us to do this because words are not magic. Words are not magic potions. God is powerful and He uses His will to express Himself to accomplish whatever He wants to and we participate in that by an act of our will. Our words sometimes express that will but the words themselves are not magic.

And by the way, what is wrong with being a hunter of that which is off kilter? Think about that. Would it be better if no one was willing ask the hard questions, if no one were poking around looking for theological distinctions? Is that the kind of church realm that you want to live in? Let all speak for God. Let's get rid of everybody who asks the hard questions or who raises the concern what God’s word really is. Let's get rid of everyone who points the finger. Sometimes pointing fingers land on guilty subjects. And there's only one way to find out. It's to point the finger and then look at the evidence.

Has God not commissioned us to protect His word? Has He not commissioned the church in general, and if He has then He's commissioned individual people to be more alert to that than some others. That's the illustration of the body in 1 Corinthians 12. That's why every part of the body has a particular job. We work together for the fullness of the Body. You've got everybody doing a different job. So it seems to me if God is concerned about truth then there are going to be some people placed in the body that are especially concerned about watching for the nastiness that creeps in. Didn't Paul himself say "Guard the flock"? Didn't he warn the Ephesian elders in chapter 20 of the book of Acts that this kind of thing was going to happen? Didn't he tell Titus to refute those in error? Didn't he tell Timothy that many are causing division and problems? Didn't Jesus Himself talk about this kind of thing? This is a very important part of the church.

Therefore words are everything to God for He uses them for accurate information, to us to have, and by his power they may be trusted as His will.


  • Emotion does not settle issues of truth.
  • Tradition or new-traditions are not always right.
  • Do not give human authority figures uncritical allegiance.
  • Be careful of the way you use words. Words are tools. They must be used properly and carefully.
  • Do not force people into limited or false options. A dog cannot be both black and white, but it may be neither.
  • Do not use name-calling or put-downs as a debate tactic (argumentum ad hominem).
  • Be careful of accusations based solely on the presumed origin of a given idea or practice (the genetic fallacy). The popularity or unpopularity of something does not make it either true or false.
  • The fact that something is either an old or a new idea does not automatically make it correct (chronological snobbery).
  • Be careful in the use of “guilt by association.” Do not dismiss good ideas or practices by letting your imagination take them to inappropriate extremes.
  • Be prudent when using the “slippery slope” argument (not all slopes are slippery; i.e. “b” does not necessarily follow “a” in all cases.).
  • Be alert to cause and effect errors (post hoc propter hoc).
  • Make sure that conclusions follow from adequate evidence and support (non sequitur does not follow). Do not accept clichés or popular slogans uncritically.
  • Do not “stack the deck,” i.e. only point out observations that support your pet theory, ignoring all evidence to the contrary.
  • Be wary of generalizing by taking all opinions and splitting the difference. Remember that the truth is often not in the middle. (the law of the excluded middle).
  • Do not take ideas or people out of context.
  • Understand that spiritual discernment means being ready to admit to weakness or limitation in that very gift; being willing to abandon “shortcuts” in return for the demanding spiritual disciplines that produce lasting fruit.

Taken and abridged from a G.Koukl article.

Monday, May 24, 2010

Music of the Lamb and Lion of Judah; Revelations

The Lamb

Israel’s prophetic hope was that the end of time is really the beginning of time. Isiaiah spoke about it with the expectation of God’s final coming and reign in human history; they frequently described that time in imagery associated with paradise and the original creation. A new creation was going to replace the fallen old creation. Isaiah’s picture of the return of paradise is a striking example of this prophetic expectation.

Isaiah 11:5-10, The earth will shake at the force of his word, and one breath from his mouth will destroy the wicked. 5 He will wear righteousness like a belt and truth like an undergarment.6 In that day the wolf and the lamb will live together; the leopard will lie down with the baby goat. The calf and the yearling will be safe with the lion, and a little child will lead them all. 7 The cow will graze near the bear. The cub and the calf will lie down together. The lion will eat hay like a cow. 8 The baby will play safely near the hole of a cobra. Yes, a little child will put its hand in a nest of deadly snakes without harm. 9 Nothing will hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain, for as the waters fill the sea, so the earth will be filled with people who know the Lord. 10 In that day the heir to David’s throne will be a banner of salvation to all the world.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! John 1:29

Revelation 5: The Scroll and the Lamb: 1Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, "Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?" 3But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals." 6Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven-fold spirit of God sent out into all the earth. 7He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song:

"You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. 10You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth." 11Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12In a loud voice they sang: "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!" 13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

Revelation 14:4, 4 They have kept themselves as pure as virgins,[a] following the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been purchased from among the people on the earth as a special offering to God and to the Lamb. 5 They have told no lies; they are without blame.

Revelation 19:4-9, 21:22, 23, 22:1; they cried out, “Amen! Praise the Lord!” 5 And from the throne came a voice that said, “Praise our God, all his servants, all who fear him, from the least to the greatest.” 6 Then I heard again what sounded like the shout of a vast crowd or the roar of mighty ocean waves or the crash of loud thunder: “Praise the Lord! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns. 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and let us give honor to him. For the time has come for the wedding feast of the Lamb, and his bride has prepared herself. 8 She has been given the finest of pure white linen to wear.” For the fine linen represents the good deeds of God’s holy people. 9 And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb.” And he added, “These are true words that come from God.” 21: But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 22: And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.


Genesis 49:8-12: 8 "Judah, your brothers will praise you; your hand will be on the neck of your enemies; your father's sons will bow down to you. 9 You are a lion's cub, O Judah; you return from the prey, my son. Like a lion he crouches and lies down, like a lioness—who dares to rouse him? The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his. 11 He will tether his donkey to a vine, his colt to the choicest branch; he will wash his garments in wine, his robes in the blood of grapes. His eyes will be darker than wine, his teeth whiter than milk.

Judah became the spokesperson for the brothers and volunteered his own life for Benjamin (Genesis 44:33). Joseph would receive the birthright, but, from Judah would come the Ruler, the Savior (1 Chronicles 5:2 Judges 1) indicates Judah to be a great fighting tribe.

The scepter, Shiloh, the donkey, the washing of garments and the lion all seem to be references to Christ. It was the Lion of the tribe of Judah who was worthy to open the scroll and proclaim judgment on the enemies of God’s people (Revelation 5.) Judah wouldbe both an eternal spiritual offspring and a faithful temporal tribe.

Ephraim has encircled Me with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit; but Judah still walks with God, even with the Holy One who is faithful. Hosea 11:12.

Revelation 11:3-8; the two witnesses

“And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies”(Rev. 11:3–5).

Revelation is an apocalypse. Not just in the sense of recording an unveiling but also in terms of its composition in what might best be described as a language system or matrix deeply embedded in the Old Testament. As such, to rightly interpret Revelation in general and identify the two witnesses of Revelation 11 in particular, it is crucial to have the background music of the Old Testament coursing through our minds. We must neither attempt to draw exact parallels between the apocalyptic imagery and their Old Testament referents nor attempt to press the language system of Revelation into a literalistic labyrinth such that the two witnesses literally turn their mouths into blowtorches.

First, the two witnesses are a metaphorical reference to Moses and Elijah. Old Testament jurisprudence mandated at least two witnesses to convict of a crime (Deut. 19:15), and in this case the two witnesses accuse Israel of apostasy. The imagery also harkens back to a familiar Old Testament passage in which Zechariah sees two olive trees on the right and the left of a lampstand, which symbolize “the two who are anointed to serve the Lord of all the earth” (Zech. 4:14). The two witnesses in Zechariah were identified as Zerubbabel, the governor of Judah who returned to Jerusalem to lay the foundation of a second temple, and Joshua, the high priest commissioned to preside over its altar. In Revelation this imagery is invested in two witnesses who preside over the judgment and destruction of Jerusalem and the second temple. Like Moses the witnesses have power to turn water into blood (Exod. 7). And like Elijah they have power to call down fire from heaven to consume their enemies and to shut up the sky so that it will not rain for three and a half years (1 Kings 17–18; Luke 4:25; James 5:17; Rev. 11:6).

Furthermore, the mission of the two witnesses can rightly be identified with the person and work of Jesus Christ. Like Jesus they are sacrificial lambs. Indeed, their corpses unceremoniously litter the streets of Jerusalem—the very city in which their Lord was crucified (Rev. 11:8). The city is figuratively called Sodom in that it epitomizes human wickedness and heavenly wrath, and Egypt in that it is emblematic of the slavery from which only Jesus Christ can emancipate. Their resurrection after three-and-a-half days parallels the resurrection of Christ in much the same way that their three-and-a-half-year ministry mirrors that of Messiah.

Finally, the description of these witnesses as “clothed in sackcloth” (Rev. 11:3) identifies them with the tradition of Hebrew prophets from Elijah to John the Baptist who wore sackcloth in mourning over Israel’s apostasy (e.g., 2 Kings 1:8; Isa. 20:2; Matt. 3:4). In light of biblical imagery, then, the two witnesses are revealed not as two literal people, such as a future reincarnation of Moses and Elijah, but rather they are literary characters in John’s apocalyptic narrative representing the entire line of Hebrew prophets in testifying against Israel and warning of soon-coming judgment of God on Jerusalem. Ultimately, the two witnesses form a composite image of the Law and the Prophets culminating in the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of a Prophet and Priest who is the earnest of all who are His witnesses and who will reign with Him in a New Jerusalem wherein dwells righteousness.